On February 5, 2021, legendary manager and baseball coach Trey Hillman joined “Chatter Up!” to discuss his managerial work in Nippon Professional Baseball (NPB) Major League Baseball (MLB), and the Korean Baseball Organization (KBO). Hillman, who won both the Japan Series and Asia Series in 2006 with the Hokkaido Nippon-Ham Fighters, as well as the Korean Series in 2018 with SK Wyverns, took the time to discuss his lengthy global career, with a focus on how he got his start in Japan, his analytics-vs-gut approach to managing, the differences between KBO and NPB, and why his first day with the Hokkaido Nippon-Ham Fighters was his first day in the big leagues. For a recap of the conversation, check here, or watch the full video for yourself below!
Shane:
Thank you all for joining us. Good to see a lot of familiar faces, and a lot of new faces as well. I know we have some folks in Japan joining us, and all over the US, and I think a couple other countries as well, so, welcome. I love to see a lot of new faces. So this is “Chatter Up!” put on by JapanBall, and I’m really happy to have Trey Hillman as our guest today. Just to give a run of the show here, I’m going to make a couple of announcements, and then, per usual, we’ll get to our special guest, do an introduction, ask a couple prepared questions, and then open it up for audience Q&A. Trey agreed to join us for up to 45 minutes, so we’re really grateful for his time, so we’ll keep it moving along so we can get as much questions in as we can. So, I’d like to introduce Josh Morey, Joshua Morey is our co-host today, and I’m just going to put you in the spotlight. Hey, Josh. So for those of you who don’t know Josh, he is the owner of Yanase USA, which is a partner of JapanBall. They make baseball bats, and Yanase is one of the most respected bat companies in Japan. Josh brought Yanase to the United States, and they make really high quality products. I will show a couple of those later. He also is the founder of the Far East Baseball Exchange, which has a lot of similar values to JapanBall in wanting to spread goodwill through baseball and cultural exchange, and bridge building between different communities, so Josh and I have a lot in common, and Josh, in what he does, has a lot in common with JapanBall. So Josh, really happy to have you on here. And thank you for joining us.
Josh:
Thanks for that kind introduction, Shane. First of all, just thank you for having me. I just love Trey, I haven’t seen you in a while, so it’s great to see your face. I wish I could give you a big hug. I just want to introduce Trey, and I’m gonna do an introduction and we’ll get into a couple questions. For those of you who don’t know Trey, he won the 2006 Japan Series and Asia Series titles with the Hokkaido Nippon-Ham Fighters. He won the KBO 2018 Korea Series with SK Wyverns, and is the only person to manage in NPB, MLB (with the Kansas City Royals), and the KBO. Trey, who is currently the Miami Marlins’ third base coach, has [37] years of professional baseball experience. In the MLB, [he] has been a coach or executive for the Cleveland Indians, New York Yankees, Texas Rangers, Kansas City Royals, Los Angeles Dodgers, and now the Marlins. He is best known for his five tremendous seasons in Japan with the Nippon-Ham Fighters. I saw somebody on the call had their jersey on, that’s awesome. He made the postseason three times, winning two pennants and the 2006 Japan Series and Asia Series, beating the winners of the leagues in Korea, Taiwan and China. Some players that you may recognize from the Fighters’ teams are Yu Darvish, Hiroki Kuroda, and Tsuyoshi Shinjo. After three years managing the rebuilding Kansas City Royals, Trey left for Incheon, South Korea, and won another championship, this time with SK Wyverns in 2018. He’s only the second non-Korean manager in the KBO, and the first to win a title. That is Trey’s bio, I would like to actually share a few just kind of personal experiences with Trey, and then kind of get into some questions. Trey, when I was living in Japan, and you were managing the Fighters and you [would] come to the Tokyo Dome, and one of the things that I respect the most is, you genuinely care about people; I just I love that, and I think I want to start off the first question with… what kind of values really led you to be able to have that genuine attitude? You know, you’re walking on the field in a foreign country, and these players respect you, but you’re just so personable and so genuine, so I want to get to maybe a little bit before you went to Japan, how some of those values and upbringing that really created you, [and] who you are.
Trey:
Well, I appreciate you starting off with that question, Josh, and I love you and I love your family and I cherish my memories [of] the first time we met in Japan, and your lineage, and everything that you’ve dedicated with your life and helping people. Honestly the thing that I grew up with… I was very, very blessed to be in a loving Christian home. You know, it was kind of a parallel for me… Actually, a lot of people don’t know this, I grew up as a competitive gymnast. My father was a football coach, but he also coached baseball and track, and I grew up thinking that every dad knew how to teach their son everything about every sport, that’s just how I grew up. Dad, even as a football coach, he wouldn’t let me start playing football until sixth grade, and that’s like way late here in the state of Texas, and I was itching to play. So I was a competitive gymnast through sixth grade, in my first year of playing football, and I always loved baseball. So the way I grew up was just, you know, as corny as it sounds for the love of the game. I don’t think there’s any other game that God has blessed us with that parallels life as much as the game of baseball does: the ups, the downs, the length of the season, the daily grind, and how you choose to view that positively or negatively. Were you 0-for-4 yesterday, and how’s your outlook today? You know, whatever, but that’s always been a passion of mine, baseball, and then loving people. I love relationships. I have a very, very simple three part paradigm, if you will, or subheading of what my leadership philosophy is, and that is, number one, [Integrity: always tell the truth,] number two conversation overcomes confrontation, and number three is timing and presentation. I can speak on that for like two hours. When I’m in a leadership position, even though I’m not managing right now, I’m still the Defensive Coordinator with the Miami Marlins, so I’m still in a little bit of a leadership position underneath the manager. I go back to those three bullet points, if you will, but at the end of the day, it all goes back to the foundation of having a good relationship. I love baseball. I love people. I love my family. I left Japan and Korea, not because of the job I left, [but] to be closer to family, it’s really important to me. I’ve got a tremendous wife, we just celebrated in December our 30th anniversary. We’ve got two wonderful children, one is married to a Major League ballplayer [Brett Phillips], and I told her don’t date baseball guys, because all men are pigs, baseball men are piggier. And what did she do? She married a baseball guy. So that was definitely a God thing. Our son was a collegiate player in NCAA Division-I school, and is in the working world now. I’ve just been really blessed, but I love people. I love my family more than my job, and I really, really love the game of baseball.
Josh:
It’s funny, Trey, because I still remember going into Tokyo Dome, and they have the cheerleaders and they have all the gymnastics on the field and everything, and your daughter would actually go out on the field at that time, and join the cheerleaders out there. I just love how you brought your whole family along on this journey and let them participate in it.
Trey:
Well, there’s no possible way that I would be where I am today… and I’m fixing to experience my 37th year in professional baseball. And this will be- a lot of people don’t know this- but you have designated coaches in Major League Baseball. We get to partner up with the Players’ Association. The best way I can say it is the word guests, we get to be guests. The manager is mandatory, [but there are] a total of seven [coaches], but the poor coaches are designated, so I will be experiencing my 10th year as a designation, which maxes me out. And it’s a God bless thing, but it maxes me out on my Major League pension plan through the blessing of the Players’ Association. Honestly- I tell people this all the time- my first year in the major leagues was 2003, in the Seibu dome, with the Nippon Ham-Fighters, as their manager. That was my first day in the Major Leagues. Now, the unfortunate part of that is I don’t get pension time in this earthly world, but I look at that and I go, “Man, that was my [first Major League moment]” but it doesn’t count, [nor does my time] with the Wyverns in South Korea, and then this will be my 10th year in the Major Leagues, my 37th overall, for a guy that was nothing more than a piece of cow dung, minor league utility man professionally, that’s not bad, and I feel very, very blessed for that.
Josh:
I still remember that we’re sitting at home, watching the pregame and BP, and Shinjo’s just hitting balls off the Tokyo Dome roof, and then you just bring these two guys over, who at that time was this guy [Tomoya] Yagi, and another guy named [Yu] Darvish, and you’re like, “Hey, come meet these two new young guys!” And you know, at that time, [we] didn’t know Darvish was, but you just bring people along with the journey, and you’re so relational, and I love it. So I love that people can hear your backstory a little bit, but I think now just kind of transitioning, Shane has some questions regarding really… how did you get to Japan? And why did you stay? So I’ll kick it off to Shane.
Shane:
Thanks Josh, and thanks Trey, that was really interesting to hear. I have to ask, if Josh remembers your daughter doing gymnastics on the field, and you were a competitive gymnast, did you ever join them?
Trey:
You know what I did? Honestly, I tumbled a lot Shane, while I was in Japan. A lot of people may or may not know this about BB, or Brisky Bear, the mascot for the Fighters while I was there, I think he’s since moved on into a front office position, is my understanding. The original BB, when we were in Tokyo and then transitioned to Hokkaido, this guy was number one, he was educated both in Japan and the United States. He had a degree, he was an exceptional piano. So when we had our fan fests in Hokkaido, I would sing, and he would play the piano with his BB mitts on. He was incredible. But he was also a very proficient tumbler and gymnast, and I would get together with him when there was no media around at the Sapporo Dome, and we’d go out and we’d tumble together at the Sapporo Dome. And dadgummit, one day, there’s one baseball card of me doing a backhand spring. That wasn’t supposed to happen, because I’ve always believed as the manager, especially in Japan, and I don’t fault Japan in any way, [but] the manager position is something of a mentorship, so I really didn’t want to be the focal point and the center of attention; I wanted the players to be that center of attention. But our daughter, because of my gymnastics background- on our back three acres back there, we have a major league size turf infield, with 60 and 90 foot bases, and we donate that to the community- she learned to tumble back there on that, and that was precipitated because she was one of the Fighters’ girls. And those Fighters’ girls treated her like a little sister, they were 19 to 24 years old, and our daughter Brianna was six years old when she started doing that, from six to 11. So that was an incredible experience for her.
Shane:
Wow, what a great opportunity for her. So I want to talk a little bit, going right back to 2002. So right before you left for Japan, you had been, what I would think from reading it, a rising star in the Yankee system as a manager, and you come home to Texas to be their farm director, and they’re stocked with guys like Hank Blalock and whatnot… How much did it surprise you when you got offered the Fighters job? Was there anything that led up to that? And how hard was it to make a decision to leave, when you had just come back home, to leave for a completely foreign country?
Trey:
A lot of people don’t know the story, I’m happy to share it. So I signed a two year deal in the Fall of 2001, to be the Director of Player Development and the Field Coordinator (for the Texas Rangers). For those of you that don’t know- and I’m not trying to insult anyone’s intelligence- but those are two different roles. They’re both considered executive positions. The field coordinator actually coordinates everything that happens on the minor league fields in conjunction with whatever the major league staff needs, specifically the manager and the general manager. The other part of that was, I was the minor league director, so I was also in charge, through Grady Fuson, who was our Vice President of Player Development in Scouting. So I was also in charge of moving all the pieces in the minor leagues, and at that time, we had six minor league teams. So that’s a lot of moving parts. When I interviewed for the job, the only thing that I told Grady was, “I really, really need to stay in uniform and on the field as much as possible, that’s what drives me. I don’t want to be in khakis and a collared shirt and be in the office.” He said, “That’s perfect for what I want, because I want my director to be the field coordinator too, so you will be on the field with every one of our minor league teams, you will run spring training for all six minor league clubs, and it fits perfect.” So what happened with that was- I remember the date, it was June 22nd, 2002, and I’m standing in the kitchen here at our home right where I am now in Central Texas, and I get a call from Japan, from Toshi Shimada. Toshi and I were friends, because the Nippon-Ham Fighters had a player exchange in the fall with the New York Yankees. Toshi called and he said, “Hey, I just wanted to let you know, I will contact whoever I need to contact, but we’re very interested in you coming to Japan and being our manager next year.” And I went, “Wow, that’s great.” A lot of people don’t know this either, but I had managed in the Hawaiian Winter League, and I had a rotation of eight Japanese players, and I fell in love with them. I just fell in love with their work ethic, and their knowledge, and just their demeanor, and kidding around with them, and then how sociable they were. So I asked my wife after that Hawaiian Winter League, I said, “Would you ever want to go to Japan? And she said, [yes… she is such a trooper, loves to travel and experience new things.] So fast forward to 2002, I get the call and she’s standing right beside me, and I told him who they needed to call. The very next morning, I was flying to Oklahoma City, to be with our Triple A club for the Texas Rangers, and Grady Fuson was meeting me there, our Vice President of Player Development Scouting. And I told him, “Hey, I got a call from Japan last night.” And he was so graceful, he said, “You know, you signed a two year deal to be with us and be with me specifically, but it’s not a matter of what’s best for the Texas Rangers, it’s a matter of what’s best for Trey Hillman and his family.” And, you know, that was [a great thing to hear from a] boss, but you know, things rolled in, by August the 15th, it was hush hush… there were only five or six people with the Texas Rangers that knew, and there were maybe that many in Japan that knew. But by August 15, 2002, I was set to go to Japan for the 2003 season.
Shane:
Wow, that must have been interesting then, playing it out for the last few months. I want to fast forward a few years now, and I’m going to share this picture… this is gonna be the last question, then we’re gonna open it up for Q&A… So I want to share this picture, and I want you to please just take us there. [Shane displays photo of Trey being thrown in to the air by his players after the Japan Series championship]. What does that feel like? And also, what made that team unique? What made that team special? And how did you get there? That’s a feeling that not many people in the world get to have.
Trey:
Yeah, that doh-age, I tell you what, man, I’ve had more doh-age than anybody deserves to ever have. All blessings from God in heaven. It’s incredible. You know, it never crossed my mind- this is one thing I like to share with people that asked me about that- it never crossed my mind until about the third toss. Maybe I’m really, really naive, but I never thought about them dropping me. I just thought about the joy of those guys in that circle celebrating what we had done, and it was extremely humbling to think I was the guy that was getting tossed up. So it’s very humbling, but at the same time, it’s like riding the best roller coaster you’ve ever been on in your life, I mean, it’s just such a thrill to get tossed up in the air by guys that you are blessed to get to manage. You just look at that, and you go, “Seriously, is this really happening?” And then when it happened again in Korea, they tossed me up in the air there too, and I just thought, “Wow, this is very, very special.”
Shane:
That’s cool, “best roller coaster ever”… I like that. Alright, I’m going to Ian.
Ian:
So participation in baseball has gone down amongst younger people, children. And I was wondering what your solution to that is. And I’m also wondering if you think there should be caps on how much practice kids should do as well, like some kids practice 360 days a year and it’s like they’re in boot camp, not playing baseball. So I was just wondering about your opinion on stuff like that.
Trey:
I’ll cover the boot camp aspect. First and foremost, and this goes back to my Fighters days too, I think the most important thing that anybody associated, especially with youth baseball, can do for kids is to make it fun. I understand the competitiveness of it- I hate to lose, I love to win, I get that- but I think that there has to be more balance, and I think that the number one thing, regardless of whether or not it’s a club sport, or if it’s a select team, I think that the number one objective should be to keep it fun for the kids. Any sacrifices that the kids have to make for other activities, especially with their family, I think they ought to get a mulligan on that. To keep kids interested, I’m involved- one of the things I’m very proud of- with Major League Baseball’s RBI program. I think we’ve got to continue to strive to get all kids- not just inner city kids, but all kids- interested in playing baseball. One of the reasons soccer is such a strong sport is because all you’ve got to do is find an open field and set up a couple of barriers for goals, and the kids get to play soccer. And it’s growing here in Central Texas, just as it is all over the world. But we need to fund it to where kids have the equipment to be able to play baseball, and the RBI program does an excellent job of that. So I would just hope [that] at eye level on the minor league teams here in the United States. Because if that had happened, good lord, 36, 37 years ago, my should-be Hall of Fame manager Don Mattingly would not have even been drafted, and he was drafted in the 19th round. So I hope that we end up growing the game more instead of limiting the game. And I know I’m spinning off of your question, Ian, but I think we have to get back to the ground roots of all ethnicities, inner city, wealthy, middle income, whatever, and supply them- those that can’t afford it- with the equipment that they need, and then keep it fun. And I hope that answers your question.
Shane:
Thanks for that, Trey, and thank you, Ian. All right, Daniel, I’m going to you.
Daniel:
I read that you had a player that you yanked from pitching, and he was upset because he could have gotten 10 games won. When you’re coaching, do you ever consider players going for records, or do you not consider that at all?
Trey:
Absolutely. You definitely consider that, you even make sure that your media department, especially in the United States, they give you heads ups on momentous occasions in individual statistics. Yes. I’d read the line, we were [working] really hard for a playoff spot and positioning. We were playing Bobby Valentine’s team, the Chiba Lotte Marines. And [Satoru] Kanemura got very upset. The thing that’s not covered in the media leading up to that is Kanemura had not been very effective in his previous four to five starts. I had a history, even in Kansas City- and actually it was probably one of my downfalls- I would stick with my starters too long. I didn’t have a very good bullpen in Kansas City, I just didn’t have a lot of experience and a lot of power arms, but that’s where I draw the line. I draw the line with: is it [for the] team? I knew the 10 wins was a deal. If I replay that game, if I’d left Kanemura in, we would have given up the lead, everything was flat. I evaluate pitchability, I evaluate opposition swings, I listen to my pitching coach. Ultimately at the end of the day, it’s my decision, and I still stand by what I did. I forgave him even more than the organization did. It was my recommendation that he be brought back into the fold, and have an opportunity of experiencing our playoff run and eventual championship, and he was a contributor to that. I look back on that, and I really wouldn’t have handled it any different from what I did, 14 years later.
Shane:
Thanks, Daniel, for that question, that’s a really interesting question. All right, Craig, I’m going to you.
Craig:
Hey Trey, thank you for doing this. It’s been fascinating. What I’m curious about is if you were advising a young player who had the option to go to Japan or South Korea, and for financial terms, things were basically equivalent, what would you tell him to consider when evaluating the offers, in terms of those two different countries?
Trey:
Wow, that’s an excellent question, Craig. First and foremost, I would educate them on what my experience is in both countries. And succinctly put- I’ve been asked this question many, many times- I’d say that Japan baseball, number one, [is] more fundamentally sound, number two, the pitching is better, and number three, the fan interaction is more fanatical. Korea, on the other hand, is a little more affable, to especially a Western sense of humor. And maybe it’s me being a redneck from Central Texas, grew up in Dallas Fort-Worth, but they’re a little more affable, not quite as serious as the Japanese coach or player. They’re more offensive oriented. Really, to answer your question, Craig, I would consider what position they play, and if they’re an offensive oriented player, and they’re really looking to put up offensive numbers, I’d say, “Dude, go to Korea. The pitching’s not as good, and even though you’re not going to play in front of as many people, and the defense, and the [field] surfaces are not as nice, there are less domes, you’re gonna have more rainouts, but you’re going to hit more bombs, and you’re gonna increase your chances of making more money with your incentive package, if you can get one. So if they’re a pitcher, and they’re proficient, especially if they’re a starting pitcher or a backend power guy, I’d say, “Go to Japan.” If they’re an infielder, or an outfielder, that is specifically [a] defensive specialist, but they’ve also got some speed and exceptional agility, and they’re gonna be proficient at stealing bases, and their demeanor and their personality is very sacrificial, then I’d say go to Japan. Does that make sense, Craig?
Craig:
Yes, it does. Thank you for that, that was quite fascinating.
Trey:
You’re welcome. Thanks for being on. You and Daniel were [some] of the first guys on here. That was awesome.
Shane:
Thanks for that question. Craig, Appreciate it. Ted, you’re up next.
Ted:
Thanks for being here. I’m from Springfield, Virginia, and I’m a Nats fan. So when the Marlins come, I’m going to go down and say hello to you.
Trey:
Please do Ted!
Ted:
I will. My question is, during your career, what were some of the hardest decisions you had to make as a manager in dealing with players? And then during a game, what were some of the hardest decisions you had to make?
Trey:
I think as a manager, the most difficult decisions that you have to make is on your starting pitcher. For those of you that don’t know, this was not Trey Hillman’s idea. This was God’s plan, and George Bradley, who hired me away after one year of free agent scouting in 1988, he hired me away to join the development staff, which just is cool speak for “minor league coach.” He hired me away to join the New York Yankees, and I coached at 26. By the time I turned 27, he made me the manager of our Instructional League team, and then named me the manager of the Short A season, which, to my understanding, is still a record in professional baseball. He turned me into a manager at 27 years old. It wasn’t because I was that smart, and I’m still not, but I started managing at 27 years old in the New York-Penn League. And that first year, we won a championship, and it wasn’t because of Trey Hillman’s managerial prowess, it was because our scouts had a great draft, and I got great players. I tell people this all the time, coaches coach, managers manage, players play, [but] players win ball games. Can you make a difference as a coach? Absolutely. Can you make a difference as a manager? Absolutely. But you know, in comparison, to what the players do, that difference is very, very small. So back to what your question was, Ted, the most difficult decisions to make as a manager, first and foremost, is when to pull your starting pitcher. A really, really great manager, as I was coming up, once told me, “Trey, you really don’t have to watch your pitcher. He said, just watch the opposition’s hitters.” When you’re getting loud outs, and extra base hits, and they’re squaring it up, and you’re seeing the plane of that pitch, go from what we want here or up here now with analytics with the four-seam fastball, the hitters will tell you when it’s time to get the bullpen warmed up. The hitters will tell you when it’s time to go to the bullpen, but you better pay attention. So that, Ted, is the thing, because as long as the game has been played, those starting pitchers dictate the momentum of the game. I just did a coaches’ clinic for a group in Austin last week, and the ranges of ages of these coaches was six all the way to 18. I asked the question, I said, “What do your kids want to do when they get to the ballpark?” And they had the correct answer, and it’s always been the same, and it’s still the same: they want to hit. And I said, “Okay, look at every team in the history of the game that gets to the finals in baseball. They pitch it, they catch it, then they hit it.” So I think the second most important thing [is pitching]. And at the level that I’m blessed to get to coach at, in your bullpen, those seventh eighth and ninth guys… I say they don’t vibrate. It’s like almost they don’t have a pulse. The situation, the fans, the hitter, they really don’t vibrate much, their heart rate didn’t go up and down really bad, it just stays constant. Beyond that, though, it’s gotta be “catch it.” So as a manager, you got to make sure you’re consistent with your PFP work, which is, for those of you that don’t know, that stands for “Pitchers Fielding Practice,” that’s the pitchers actually interacting with your infielders. As a defensive coordinator, and as an ex-manager/infield specialist, you know, the most powerful play in the game of baseball is the double play, especially in terms of regularity. This is going to be my 37th year in professional baseball, and I have never seen more than twice of triple plays in one season. And that means twice that it’s happened, not just in the stadiums I’ve been in, in the LEAGUES I’ve been in. So if that happened with more regularity, that would be the most powerful, but with my infielders in full left handed shift, and full right handed shift and regular set, we work double plays as much as we do anything, because, one pitch and two outs. So that is the second paradigm of things that I think are the epitome of importance for managers, making sure you work on especially. And then you accentuate that, if you’re a National League team, and with the Miami Marlins, we have three possible bunt plays with a runner on first base only on the defense, and then four possible bunt plays with runners on first and second, and then we have a pick[off] series, at first base and second base, with every pitcher, and now we’ve got analytics, and we’re so analytically driven and concise. I know this wasn’t part of your question, but I think the viewers might be interested in this. We have a “Hawkeye” system that actually down to the foot takes pictures of our infielders and outfielders at the time the ball is in contact for the hitter, and then we have specific spots for each pitcher versus each hitter on the opposition. So that’s my responsibility, I get evaluated and graded on how we [used] what our analytics say, the computer model says where we should have been down to the foot for every pitch of every pitcher that we put in the ball game, against every hitter that we faced the previous night. Okay, well, those are the things that I think are the most important, Ted, I hope I didn’t convolute all that. I know I gave some extra info. Thank you for being on.
Ted:
Okay, and see you at Nats Park.
Trey:
That’d be great. Thank you, Ted.
Shane:
Thanks, Ted. All right, so we got three people with their hands raised, and we’re getting up against time, so maybe we can do a little bit of a rapid fire. One of them’s got a Fighters’ jersey, and two of them, I want to get to them all. So Joe, I’m going to you.
Joe:
Hey, how’s it going? I’m another NL East-er up here in Philadelphia, so when you make it up the Citizens Bank, if we’re able to get in the park, I’ll definitely come and say hello. Before my question, I did want to report on Hokkaido. I was there two years ago, and they still watch your championship series on replay there at a bar I was at, they had the whole thing on for like, two days. It was awesome.
Trey:
Thank you, it’s very humbling.
Joe:
It’s super cool. My question is a little broader. When I read about your career, it’s just mind blowing, it’s such a cool journey. I’m just curious to know, if you were to be put on the spot, kind of as you are now, what would be like the one sort of “wow” moment that really stands out to you, like the first thing that comes to mind in that time.
Trey:
Yeah, that’s easy. Joe, I appreciate the question very much. Nobody’s ever asked it in all the interviews and things that I’ve ever done, never asked in that way, and I’ll tell you, we covered it earlier, it was my first day in the major leagues, I remember looking at Kazuyuki Shirai and we’re standing for the Japan national anthem in the third base dugout at the Seibu dome, and he understood enough English, and I felt like I was filled with the Holy Spirit to say, “Say this to your Japanese brother.” Because that’s what he was for me. We had known each other from Yankee days. And it’s been a year in the United States and traveled the system, and he was just, he’s still a wonderful guy. But Kazuyuki Shirai, I looked at him and I went, “Oh, my goodness. This is my first day in the Major Leagues.” And I said it earlier, it’s true, I did some cool things as a Division I collegiate player, but when I look at it, and I see what these guys do, that I get to coach, and what they did in Japan, and what they did in Korea, and going, on every level, the minor leagues, I look at this, and I go, “Wow, I was so blessed to even put on a professional uniform as a player.” So the most impactful thing for me is that God-blessed day in Seibu, where I actually spent my first major league game, and it was in the country of Japan. And I tell people this all the time, I grew up my whole life, praying and asking God, “Please let me be a major league shortstop. I want to play big league shortstop.” And I’ve said this 1000 times, I bet: “God’s got a great sense of humor. He didn’t let me be a player in the major leagues, but he allowed me to make it to the major leagues all the way over in Japan.”
Joe:
Super cool, man. Beautiful answer. Thank you.
Shane:
Thank you. Thanks, Joe. All right, a familiar face to you, I assume. Marty Kuehnert, you’re up next.
Trey:
Marty!
Marty:
Trey, Kyoko says to tell you the lasagna is ready to go in the oven when you’re going to come over.
Trey:
My goodness, I’m in a three point stance. Give my love to that family, buddy. It’s great to see you.
Marty:
We’d love to share some camaraderie with you again. I’d thought I’d share with the gang here today, the camaraderie that we have. You and I both have a history with a guy by the name of Yu Darvish, and your history with him is a lot better than mine, because that most stupid decision I made as a general manager my first year was to pass on Darvish and sign a player by the name of [Yasuhuro] Ichiba, as I’m sure you remember. Our organization was looking at a college pitcher that was more mature, ready to play, could win more for us right away, so we let we let the high school kid go, and you got him. That was kind of a bad turning point in my career, but it was great, you got him. But I wish you would tell the people about the impact that he had when he came to your club. And I remember an incident that we talked about later, where he got to be such a big star that he did that semi-nude layout in the magazine.
Trey:
Yeah, the Japanese GQ.
Marty:
I remembered that you told me you just sat him down in your office and had a long talk with him, and it may have changed his career. I wish you could tell the people about what you told young Yu Darvish; that head might have been getting a little bit too big at that time.
Trey:
Yeah, my experiences with Yu, and still are here in the United States, have been exceptional. I don’t think that- and I say this with all humility and honesty- I don’t think I did a lot for Yu. He was God-gifted, with incredibly large hands, for those that don’t know. I’ll tell a little side story, and then I’ll answer your question, Marty, and it’s great to see you by the way, you look great. Mike Brown was my pitching coach, and I purposely did not go- first of all, I experienced a lot of pressure from ownership in the front office, but it was clearly stated that I had total autonomy as long as I can communicate with them, over my roster. So when we signed Yu, I got all this pressure that I had from the front office, to start him in the major leagues, and I refused to do it. I’d learned too many things in my development days with the New York Yankees, and there was no downside to Yu Darvish getting his feet wet in the minor leagues. So he ended up getting I believe five, maybe six, starts in the minor leagues, something like that, and then he came up. And he was as advertised, a man amongst boys. But I’ll never forget in 2004, Mike Brown came into my office, I didn’t go watch his bullpen, and Mike Brown came in and he said, “Wow.” Now, Mike Brown was a seasoned pitching coach at that point, he’d been doing it for several years., and he said, “Trey, this young man can get touch, and he’s changing a grip quicker than anyone I’ve ever seen in my career.” And I went, “Oh, so he is that special?” And Mike said, “Yeah, you’re really gonna like him.” So you can imagine the thrill that I had standing in the third base box at Wrigley Field this year as our Marlins are playing the Cubs in the playoffs and getting to watch you from the third base box, and just being proud. I wanted us to win, I wanted us to beat him, but I was really proud of him. When that incident happened with [the magazine,] he was getting a little bit big for his britches, you’re exactly right. I think everyone saw that. I let Yu be Yu the same way I let [Tsuyoshi] Shinjo be Shinjo. Before we ever signed Shinjo, the front office came to me and said, “Hey, this is what this guy brings to the table. You’re going to have to analyze… ” So when that happened with Yu and the pictorial, I called him into my office, and he was very reticent, and very humble. He knew he was in the doghouse, and I just tried to talk to him like a young man. And I said, “Look, you’re young. We’ve had the smoking incident already, now we’ve got the pictorial incident. I think that thing that you’re missing is that everything that you do, whether it’s on the field or off the field, is a reflection on our organization. What I need you to do is look at our organization more like your family, and treat that with the respect that you would of your mother and father.” I think it resonated with him. The meeting was probably 10 minutes long. In typical Japanese player fashion, in a meeting with the manager, he didn’t offer to speak. I offered to allow him to give his rebuttal, and his only rebuttal was, to my recollection, “You’re right, and I’ll be more thoughtful in the future, and I’m sorry, I’m sorry for embarrassing the organization.” But you know, guys like that, Michihiro Ogasawara, Shinjo, Yu Darvish, Tanaka Yukio, Kanemura, those guys. A couple of those guys didn’t get as much as the others, but other than being in Japan, I can’t imagine what their daily life was like with all that attention. I think when you’re in a leadership position, you gotta take that in consideration, and I said, “I don’t really know what it’s like to be Yu Darvish.” So, sometimes I think you got to give them a mulligan, give him a second chance and give him that tough love, and hit him right between the eyes and tell him to tell him the truth.
Marty:
I remember the Kanemura incident too. And I remember that it was the club, as you just mentioned, I don’t know if everybody knows, but the club came on really hard on you. They extended him, and there were a lot of things, and he was in deep doo-doo, and you were the one that bailed him out. I remember that you were the one that had the compassion to say, “Okay, people make mistakes.” You were the one that really bailed him out.
Trey:
I appreciate you mentioning that Marty, and I don’t want to get rotator cuff surgery by patting myself on the back by any means. But they came down hard on him. They can’t offer loyalty and support. At the same time, I was a little bit shocked at how hard they were because honestly, there was absolutely no plan, in their mind, to let this guy come back. So when they told me about what the penalty was going to be, and before they even finished their breath on that, I simply said, and this was the day after, “Let’s not be too rash to make decisions in the heat of the moment. It happened to me, so if I can be a little bit balanced about it, then I’m going to ask you as ownership in the front office to be balanced about it. Let’s see where this goes, and let’s see what his answer is, about what he said about me, and how he reacts. We’ve all made mistakes. Let’s strongly consider allowing the possibility of him coming back before the season’s over.” And they said, “Wow, well, we weren’t considering that. But at your request, we will.” So I don’t I don’t even remember Marty, do you remember the time span from the time it happened to the time we hugged him back into the group?
Marty:
I think he was banned for a couple of weeks, and then came back, as I recall. But I remember that he was cooked. Had it not been for you, he certainly would not have played again that year. That’s for sure.
Trey:
Well, I would tend to agree with you on that, but honestly, I’ve never had any animosity about that, and I’ve actually been surprised how much it’s been brought up. I know it’s a big deal in that culture, but honestly, once it was over, it was over, and the guy comes back and helps us win. So you know, that goes back to “Is it about self? Or is it about your family and your team?” So absolutely, that was a no brainer for me, at least for my philosophy.
Marty:
One more thing before I leave you, you got [Fernando] Seguignol there to keep your back there and in Miami?
Trey:
Oh, absolutely. “Segui” is our International Director, and… I still throw batting practice every day, when I’m out throwing batting practice during spring training, and Segui’s leaning on the cage, and of course, he’s still this massive figure, I say, “Segui, grab a bat. I’m gonna hit you right in the ribs.”
Marty:
You have any more Japan grads with you there in Miami?
Trey:
No, we don’t actually. Only Segui. No other Japan grads.
Marty:
Give him a hug for me.
Trey:
I will man, and give my love to the family.
Marty:
The lasagna is always ready for you!
Trey:
Thank you, brother. Hope to see you again. And Shane, don’t be worried about the time, man. This is a pleasure for me. So if you got a couple more questions, I’m good to go. Don’t worry about me.
Shane:
Okay, thanks so much, we’ve got two people here to answer, and one of the big Fighters’ fans in here, Jerry, you’re up.
Jerry:
Yeah, Trey. Hi. Nice to see you again. Quick question, what percentage, as a manager, would you say is analytics, and what percentage is gut feeling?
Trey:
Oh, great question. With all the analytics out, I call myself a “new school, old school” guy. You know, the analytics, this computer stuff, it’s spot on. I mean, it is really, really good. So I would have to go 60% analytics, 40% gut, but the gut part comes with all the prep work that a manager needs to do, and a coach for that matter, with your “pre-series” meetings: whether or not you’re gonna shift or not shift Freddie Freeman and why, and who’s pitching? I would say that [of] the 40% of that gut, I would say maybe 50% or 40% comes from your analytics before you get into that series. Does that make sense?
Jerry:
Yes. Thank you, and your uniform still fits.
Trey:
Ah, thanks, buddy, appreciate it. Thanks for rocking the jersey man, I miss my Nippon-Ham family very much.
Shane:
Thanks, Jerry. Back to Ian, we’ve got one more question for him.
Ian:
So, back in 2016, I was at T-Mobile Park, and you were a coach with the Astros, and I asked you if you thought Shohei Ohtani was going to be a better pitcher in the majors, and you said yes. And we saw flashes of that. So do you think he should keep pitching? And on the Marlins, you have a really good pitcher named Sixto Sanchez, who has incredible stuff. And so how good do you think he can be as well?
Trey:
I think first and foremost was Sixto, I think the sky’s the limit, because he’s getting better with the secondary pitches. Obviously, he can throw 97 to 101. So I think the sky’s the limit with him as a starting pitcher. There’s a body comp issue. It’s not bad right now, but it’s not great. He’s young, if he will pay better attention to his intake, and his diet and his regimen throughout the course of the season, and especially the offseason, this guy’s going to be a beast. Back to Ohtani, considering the fact that according to medical reports that I heard- I don’t have any verification on this- there was some partial damage already to the UCL when he came over, so now that he has already had the surgery, I don’t think that it’s a matter of “whether” or not he could be, I think he still could be a very, very major force as a starting pitcher. I think it’s more of what he feels internally and mentally on the mound, what it takes every five days, and hitting in the American League, to whether or not he wants to take that chance in shortening his career, and whether or not he can actually let the ball go as a starting pitcher. You get to a point where you talk to these guys, and you’re asking these guys to absorb somewhere between 180 and 220 innings a season, and then they add how many pitches per game that they’re pitching. That’s a lot of reps. So I think it’s more of a mental question, as long as the repair holds up with that UCL, if that makes sense.
Ian:
Yeah, we got to see him be fantastic pitching and hitting for three years, and then these past three years in the majors, they see him being injured for four straight years. So I almost just want him to hit, and put pitching behind them. But it’s up to him, of course.
Trey:
I think it all depends on what his spirit’s telling him to do. That’s the one thing that a lot of people don’t understand with the analytical information that we get and then we evaluate. With the analytics, the one thing that they’re never going to be able to evaluate is what that guy’s feeling, what’s in his heart, and those daily conversations, whether it’s our pitching coach or Mickey Calloway with the Angels, I think we all have to stay foundationally based with our relationships, so those guys tell us what their innermost feelings are. So you’ve got to help them facilitate the success that leads to the team goal of whatever it is that you’re trying to accumulate, and obviously everybody wants the same thing. I leave in six days to go to Florida to Jupiter, and we’re all going to show up just like the other 29 teams, and everybody’s going to be going “Hey, it’s time to win a championship.” And if you’re not saying that, regardless of what the prognosticators say, then you probably shouldn’t be in the business.
Shane:
Thank you for that. So that’s all I have. I have one more question. And then I’m gonna pass it off to Josh to say goodbyes-
Trey:
Shane, sorry to interrupt, but I’m out of time.
I’m just kidding.
Shane:
Well, first of all, Sanjay is complimenting your room there. I think next time we have you on, we have to get a tour of your mancave. It looks like he got some amazing stuff back behind you.
Trey:
Well, anybody that’s involved with JapanBall, if you happen to be in Central Texas, you can come see it in person and be my honored guest.
Shane:
That’s awesome, thank you. So to finish it off, for me. I’m just curious, you’ve seen so much, you’ve accomplished so much, this game is given back to you a lot, as you’ve said. What remains for you? What goals do you have, if any? And what do you look for [in] this part of your career going forward?
Trey:
Yeah, when I was asked to leave the Royals, I really didn’t think I would manage again, honestly. There were some aspects about the media, part of it that bothered me, and I’ve always attempted to be totally transparent and truthful, so I was quite shocked honestly, when God called us back, to manage, when I was a bench coach with the Astros, to go back to Korea. But managing, it’s the same as coaching. When I wake up in the morning, even though I’m not the bench coach now, my job really is one thing, and that’s to serve the manager. So whatever the manager’s needs are, and, you know my philosophy, everyone’s heard several times, I have to be relational. I’ve got to have relationships with the guys I’m in charge of. So honestly, I really don’t have any goals, other than to serve my manager, Don Mattingly, the best way I possibly can. We both work for the Miami Marlins. And then the guys on defense, I’m the coordinator. But my guys are really anybody that touches that infield dirt. Those are my guys. I’m there every day at home and on the road, I set up for extra work, it’s optional sometimes, depending on how their bodies feel, but, honestly, it’s a pretty simple mindset: serve the manager, serve the Marlins, and serve the players that I get to work with. And if God leads me back to managing, whether it be Korea, or Japan? I’m up for that. I’ve had many, many questions, and there have been some rumors with that new ballpark coming in 2023, I have no idea if that’s in Nippon-Ham’s plans. I won’t do it if I still have my dad, my dad’s 86 years old, he’s in great health, I love spending time with him. We bought a ranch in March. So I’ve got a ranch three hours away that I love, going hunting there, loving the season with family. But I am not opposed at all to coming back to Japan, if we’re not there working in Japan in 2023, I have every intention of my wife and our two children being at Opening Day. I want to see that ballpark, I want to see my Fighter family, the people that are still there, and the people that aren’t there, and so, one way or another, we’re gonna get back to Japan to see that new ballpark.
Shane:
Yeah, we can’t wait to see that park, and whether you’re there on the field as a uniform or as a fan, it’ll be cool to see that homecoming. We’ll all be rooting for you at the Marlins and wherever else you go. Thank you so much for joining us, it’s really great hearing from you and all your insights, and how much you appreciate this international version of the game that all of us on the call love too. So I’m going to hand it off to Josh to say goodbye, and then you’re welcome to sign off.
Josh:
Trey, I think I speak on behalf of everyone here, we really felt like we were part of your family for this past hour. You’re just so generous with your time, and you just emanate your feelings and your humility and actually how much you really care for this conversation and sharing with us here. So I just want to say thank you so much. I love you, brother, and I really look forward to the next time I see you, and on behalf of everyone here, thank you for your time.
Trey:
It’s my pleasure buddy, you know you’ve got an in with me, anybody that loves Jesus as much as you do, and, and my brother Will over there, I get that because of the blessings God’s blessed me with, and the people like you and Will and Marty and everybody, all the Hokkaido people, Jerry that has consistently stayed in touch, and now I’ve got new friends through this venue. So please don’t think that you’re ever bothering me, and hopefully I can always be available for JapanBall, and I’d love to do it again. I appreciate it very much.
By
Coop Daley