“Chatter Up!” is no stranger to former NPB players, and on October 22, two more stars joined the list: former Yomiuri Giants’ relief pitcher Scott Mathieson, who played between 2012 and 2019, and former slugger Craig Brazell, who played seven seasons with the Saitama Seibu Lions, Hanshin Tigers and Chiba Lotte Marines. Mathieson and Brazell took to “Chatter Up” to discuss their playing careers in Japan, with each taking turns answering questions from fans on a wide variety of topics.
For a recap of this discussion, check out our Japanese Baseball Blog. You can also see the calls themselves on our YouTube channel.
Shane:
Today we’re joined by Craig Brazell and Scott Mathieson. Thank you guys for joining us, really great to have you guys on here. I think we’re just gonna get right into it, so I’m going to start off just with an introduction of you guys, make sure everyone knows your background, and then I’ll ask each of you a couple introductory questions. I’m just gonna put Craig on spotlight there for a second so everyone can see you and your cool “man cave” it looks like you got there.
Craig:
Yeah, I’m slowly working on it. We’ve moved into a new house, so I’m slowly kind of getting it. I’m still pulling stuff out of boxes.
Shane:
Well, maybe if you got any highlight items, maybe you can share with us. But for now, I’m just going to introduce everyone [with] a little background. So Craig played 17 professional seasons, by my count, in the US and Japan. He was drafted by the Mets in the fifth round in 1998 out of Jefferson Davis High School in Montgomery, Alabama, then worked his way up to the big leagues with the Mets in 2004. I’m not sure if you’ve got any Cubs fans on the call here, but they may remember cursing him when he hit his first big league home run and kind of crushed their season [in 2004. He also] spent some time with the Dodgers and the Royals where he got back to the big leagues again. In ‘07, Craig led the minor leagues in home runs, and that got the Japanese teams’ attention. The Seibu Lions came calling and signed Craig for the ‘08 season, and that’s the season, as many of you know, that the Lions won the Japan Series; he helped them to the pennant by hitting 27 homers. And then he went on to the Hanshin Tigers, where Tigers fans always remember him for his 2010 season, when he hit 47 home runs and led the Tigers to the playoffs, and was named Best Nine, and then he also spent a couple years with the Chiba Lotte Marines. In all, it was seven seasons in Japan and 133 home runs, so, a little up and down start to the career in the US, but [he] really cemented his legacy in Japan. And that’s why we have you on here today. So thanks again for joining us Craig.
Craig:
No problem. That’s everything in a nutshell.
Shane:
So now, Scott, I’m gonna get you on here. Scott Mathieson born and raised in the Vancouver area, came up through the Canadian baseball development system, represented the country at a young age and still did throughout his career. He was a 17th-rounder in ‘02 out of high school by the Phillies, and quickly became a hard throwing top prospect in the organization and reached the big leagues at just 22, and that same year in 2006, pitched in the first ever WBC for Team Canada; like I mentioned before, he’s represented Canada in many international competitions. So he had that quick start, got to the big leagues quickly, but then started battling some injuries and never really got that permanent spot with the Phillies and then ended up signing with the Yomiuri Giants, where his career really took off, for the 2012 season. He really earned a rightful spot in the Giants’ pantheon of beloved players as a reliever. He helped the Giants [win] three pennants, including the Japan Series, and really played a key role in that Japan Series in 2012 in his first year; his veteran leadership and buy-in with Japanese culture made him beloved by teammates and fans, in evidence by, I believe that you’re the first foreign player to be named captain of the Giants, right?
Scott:
That’s what I was told. And we had four pennants, not just three.
Shane:
All right, my bad. Thank you for correcting me. So there you go. Even better than I’m describing him. Thanks again for joining us, Scott, really appreciate it.
Scott:
Oh, of course. Thanks for having me on here.
Shane:
So I’d like to just jump into some questions, I guess I’ll start just with the basic one for both of you, and Scott since you’re on here, I’ll start with you. Can you just talk a little bit about how the opportunity to go to Japan first came up? And what your decision making process was in saying yes?
Scott:
Yeah, it was a little bit of a shock at first. I remember Scott Proefock, who was the Phillies’ Assistant General Manager at the time, called me and told me he had good news and bad news. The bad news was that I wasn’t going to be a Phillie any longer, but the good news was I had options, and he said that I had a chance to go to San Diego if I wanted to, or Japan. So I told him San Diego sounded great, and then we talked a little bit more, and I realized that Japan was probably a lot better, at least at the time financial move. For me, I think after 10 seasons with the Phillies and in the States, just a fresh start was well needed for me, and I welcomed the opportunity to go over there, and really loved every experience I had in Japan.
Shane:
Right on. All right, Craig, how about you? What was your original option and decision?
Craig:
I was actually approached in 2004, 2005, like right when I first got the big leagues when I was 24, 25 years old, because I’d gotten to know [Tsuyoshi] Shinjo when he came over, and he was with the Mets, and then Kaz Matsui was with the Mets, so there was mumblings: “Hey, hey, you should go to Japan, you should go to Japan, yada, yada.” And I was like, “No, I’m still not ready for it yet.” I broke my hand in 2006, and went to the Dodgers just kind of as a babysitter role, and that year I got a little more interested in going to Japan and really playing every day except for rehab. And then in ‘07, I got approached probably four or five times when I was with Kansas City, when I was leading the minor leagues in home runs, and it would be every other week somebody would contact me about going, and of course Kansas City would be like, “no we don’t really want you to go yet because we may call you to the big leagues.” And they didn’t call me up till September, but when it got into the offseason, it kind of got a little more real. My agent said “Look, Kansas City [will] let you go, no matter what. Or you can go to Japan.” I said “Well, okay, I guess Japan looks good.” And kind of like Scott said, it was a fresh start, and I just kind of had been burned a bunch over here, and had heard a lot of things about good things about Japan. But then you think when you go over there, “hey, I’m going for one year, then I’ll be back.” My one year turned into seven and that’s where it was.
Shane:
Yeah. Scott, did you think it was just going to be a year?
Scott:
To be honest, I went over just looking for a fresh start. 12 hours before I go on that first flight, we found out my wife was pregnant, and it was quite a whirlwind first year. My son was born over there- actually, both my kids were born in Japan- and I had so much fun playing there my first year, and finally playing on a championship team and in a meaningful role, that I was definitely looking at it for the long haul, or at least for another season. After my second year, every year after that, I had major league offers, but the Giants would always find a way to beat it and find a way to convince me to stay. And it wasn’t hard because I love Tokyo. As much as you hear how hard Yomiuri can be, they always treated me really well, and I felt like I was always warmly received there.
Shane:
Yeah. So you mentioned being part of a championship team in the first year, and you both were in your first year. What was that like? Were you able to kind of grasp the significance? Or was it just kind of a whirlwind, it being in year one?
Scott:
Well, for me, I was with the Phillies when they won the World Series, but I was rehabbing. So I was there for every game, I got to experience all that, but I felt like I shouldn’t have been there. And I felt like I wanted to experience it for myself and be that one on the field. I was a big part in that first year [in Japan], and when we won it, they gave me the ball. I was closing in the final series, and it was just such a surreal experience. It was one of those things that I got along with everybody, and I just didn’t want that to end. And we ended up winning three [Central League] championships in a row when I first got there.
Shane
Wow. Craig, what about you? What was that? I know you didn’t play in the series because of an injury, but what was that like for you?
Craig
Oh, it was a whirlwind over there. Obviously going from Kansas City to Seibu, I mean, it was a big change. All those kids on that team, I mean, they were all young when I got that my first year in Japan, [Hiroyuki] Nakajima, [Yasuyuki] Kataoka, [Hideaki] Wakui. So I mean, you get there, and it’s like you walk into a season where nobody really expected you to do anything, but all these kids kind of came to life. And then once that season gets going, you get in the playoffs, man, it is craziness. And just everything about it is awesome playing over there. I mean, I’ve been to the World Series over here, never got to play in one, never got to play in the playoffs or anything. But I mean, it’s my comparison that you can’t beat the fans in Japan when it comes to playoff time or even baseball.
Shane:
What a cool experience in year one. We had a question from Gary who couldn’t join us today, but he wanted me to ask you a question. He said he remembers that after you left the Lions and you’re playing for the Tigers and you hit a double in what must have been in your first game back, and the second baseman [Yasuyuki] Kataoka gave you a big hug at second base. Do you remember that?
Craig
Yes, he did. Kataoka, I mean, every time we played against him in interleague, he’d always kind of give me a big hug. He was awesome. I mean, those kids were- can’t call them kids now- but they were great to play with. I mean, it was a lot of fun. And I think once I left Seibu, I actually hit really good against them afterwards.
Shane:
All right, we got a few people with their hands raised. Ian, you’re you’re up first.
Ian:
This is a question for both of you. How did your approaches change once you went to Japan? Because in Japan, it’s a lot more contact, and a lot more pitchers throwing junk as compared to throwing fastballs, so did your approach change at all, or did it stay the same?
Craig:
I guess I’ll jump on this one first. You know, after my first year in Japan, I went with the approach that “I’m here to hit homeruns.” That’s what they told me to do, they didn’t care; they wanted me to hit home runs, drive in runs. It worked to an extent, and you’re going to get a lot of guys that are going to throw nine splits in a row, or nothing but sliders. I think that as a hitter I had took the approach [that] they wanted to throw me everything that looked like a strike that went out of the strike zone, because I had the reputation [that] I swung at everything. I was a bad ball hitter. But for me once I got into my second year, over in Japan, I got over there with the Tigers with guys like Kanemoto-san and Yano-san and Arai and guys like that. I had to change my approach. I kind of went with the approach of “I’m forgetting everything I know about hitting. I’m learning Japanese way, which is a lot of putting the ball in play, and driving the ball the other way.” It’s not so much me working the count or anything, but learn their game and then insert mine where I could. And I think that’s after the, the ‘09 and then the ‘10 season, that’s what really helped me the most.
Scott:
Yeah, I think, at least for me, I went over there and in spring training, [Shinnosuke] Abe told me real quick to, “not think and just leave it on him.” And I really followed his lead for the first year. I was a power pitcher, and I think I was a little bit before my time where there wasn’t… nowadays, every team has somebody throwing 100. When I first got over there, I was high 90s, touching 100, and you didn’t see that as often, so I got away with a lot of fastballs. I could leave a fastball up in the zone and get away with it over there, at least my first few years. I’d say my first four years, I was a dominant fastball pitcher, and then I completely flipped a 180 in my last four years. I would throw more sliders and splits that I would fastballs; I was still throwing hard, but for four years, that’s all everybody saw. And my last four years I got away with it; I started them off with a slider strike one, slider strike two, split in the dirt, fastball up and they’d chase it. I really learned how to command my off-speed pitches later in my Japanese career, and I think once I did that, that was something I struggled with, leading up until I got to Japan. I probably overused my offspeed, and I think I really a lot of people really got frustrated with coming up to face me and seeing four off speed pitches or five off speed pitches in a row. And you know, I’d go home and just shake my head at it as well, but I had success doing it; it was something that I just kind of followed their lead over there. And I really just tried to command the zone and get ahead of guys.
Bob:
This is an international baseball question directed at Scott. Back in 2011, there was a Baseball World Cup in Panama, and that was the last Baseball World Cup ever, now they got the World Baseball Classic. But Netherlands upset Cuba that year to win the gold, but the other surprise team was Canada, they got the bronze. So in 2011, I don’t remember you being on that team, but did you have an opportunity to be on that team? Were you a little young during that time?
Scott:
No, I played in the World Cup in 2005 in Amsterdam.
Bob:
So you were probably a little old then.
Scott:
Well, I was up and down from the major leagues and on the 40-man roster, and I don’t believe 40-man roster players could play in the World Cups, that’s how I missed that. I have never turned down an opportunity to play a Team Canada. I’m still throwing and trying for that 2021 Olympics in Tokyo right now.
Bob:
Yeah, well, that’d be good. But the 2011-12 years, that seemed to be the bright years for the Canadian teams, and they haven’t been the same since then.
Scott:
Yeah, you had a lot of turnover. That was like Scott Richmond, and a lot of guys [that] were kind of at the end of their career. Or at least, there’s that turnover of Canadians from the Major Leagues that were kind of getting taken off the 40-man roster, but were still playing, so you had a lot of experience. And then you had guys like Tyler O’Neill, who were really young at the time, top prospects coming up. So you had kind of that combination of the young and old there. But yeah, Canada has definitely struggled since, I don’t know what it is. But it’s hard when, you know, your country’s the size of California in population.
Bob:
You’ll probably get a kick out of this. The one thing I remember is I was at the airport, and a bunch of Canadians had their bronze medals. And the US team also was nearby, and the Canadians were giving them a hard time about “we got the bronze and you got shut out.” So that was kind of cool.
Scott:
That’s one thing I love about playing for Canada, is that I feel like we’re very patriotic to play in our country. And I feel like anytime we’ve ever played the US, guys stood out, they don’t play, it’s all about money. There’s a few Canadians, but there’s really not many guys that they’ll risk it and go play for the country. It’s such a tight knit and small community in baseball in Canada that every January, we still get together in Toronto, and we have a big banquet and a party, and we go out for a weekend, a real long weekend. It’s just such a tight knit community that like even a bronze medal, we’re in third place, but proud of it.
Bob:
Yeah, and you beat the US team. So that was good for them.
Shane:
Scott, what does Canada have to do to qualify for Tokyo?
Scott:
Well, these stupid Olympics, only six teams qualify, because Japan’s a bye. So there’s supposed to be a qualifier, but the one in Taiwan was cancelled, and there was one in Arizona that was cancelled, so we’re waiting on the qualifier. So pretty much we have to come first or second in the qualifier. And I don’t know who all were playing. You know, hopefully, nobody shows up.
Bob:
Unfortunately, the US is another team that has to qualify.
Scott:
I think there’s only two spots left; right now it’s Japan, Korea, Israel and Mexico, Israel?
Eric:
Craig, Scott, thanks for joining us. Question about the training regimen and kind of what you guys had to change or adjust when you went over, coming from playing ball in the States and the minor leagues and going over to Japan. Any big differences, any adjustments you had to make? Reps, or things like that?
Craig:
Well, I think my first year, I had to do a lot, because they want to see what you’re all about. And I will say you do a lot more running in Japan than you do here, even position players. And you swing the bat a whole lot more. I can remember my first spring training with Seibu, after three days, I had to take three days off from hitting, because my hands were blistered. And they just believe in the repetition and the repetition, the repetitions, just getting your work in. And it’s funny, we always hear the joke. “Oh, it’s eyewash.” No, these guys are taking it serious, and they genuinely want to be the best at what they do. So I will say that towards the end of my career, my regimen was a little different. I didn’t have to run as much and do as much hitting. Once you’ve kind of proven yourself over there, they will leave you alone, they know you know what you need to do to get ready to play.
Scott:
I was gonna say I agree with that. The running is just a lot. For me, I’ve always been a long distance runner, and I had a lot of aspirations to do an ironman when I got done playing. I used to run 5ks,10ks, half-marathons in the offseason. So it wasn’t awful for me going over there, but it’s a lot. PFPs (pitchers’ fielding practices) in the US are 15 minutes, in Japan, it’s an hour and 15 minutes. You know, I remember my first year, we had a 6am meeting out on the beach in Miyazaki and we had to complete a two mile run before the 6am meeting. And our first 10 days in spring training was always two-a-days, we’d go home for dinner and then come back and we’d have bunting and whatever. So it was a lot. The biggest thing that stood out for me, and that’s something that I did throughout my whole career. And looking back I wish I didn’t, because I blew my knee out my last year and I can’t run at all now. So I picked up biking and I bike a lot. The one thing is they throw, they throw so much. And my first season over there, I was off three major elbow surgeries, two Tommy John’s and ulnar nerve, and every time I threw, my arm would swell up and it was always painful, but I could throw and I had success doing it. So I didn’t think much of it, I just thought that was my new norm. So halfway through my first season, they wanted to shut me down before the All-Star break, and for me to get a stem cell injection in my elbow, which I hadn’t ever heard of at that time. So I did that, and they promised me that they would re-sign me for the second year if I do that, and I had to do the stem cell injection, and get on their throwing program. And so I ended up doing that, and I came back in the second half of the season, and I did everything they told me and I ended up throwing a bullpen, every single game of the season for the next seven and a half years. So in the sixth inning of every game, I’d get hot, throw 15 pitches at 80% in the sixth inning, and then sit down and wait for my turn. And I throw off the mound every day. And it was something that, at first it was hard, but you know, it was just the norm at the end, and my arm feels like I’m 19 years old again, to this day. I threw a bullpen the other day, I was 94 [MPH]; my arm feels great. I just wish my knee would do the same.
Shane:
Did either of you guys have the option to just do your own regimen? Or did you just want to buy in, and do what your teammates were doing?
Scott:
Everybody I saw, they always gave you the option. But everybody who took the latter of the two were not there much longer.
Craig:
It’s kind of “get in or you’re not gonna fit in.” I had guys like [Tomoaki] Kanemoto and [Akihiro] Yano, and they got to do what they wanted to do, but if you didn’t do what the other guys were doing, they’d let you know, and those are guys you want on your side. Ultimately, a lot of those players, they can kill your career over there if they don’t like you there.
Shane:
We’ve had some former players on before, and they kind of mentioned the similar thing. It’s like you can do your own thing, but if you don’t really just buy in, and that applies not just to the workouts but just to everything in general the culture, the diet and everything, then you’re not gonna be around for a while.
Craig:
Yeah, learn Japan, learn the culture, learn to respect, and then you’ll do all right. We got down to – I think it was Miyazaki for spring training for Seibu – I mean, they didn’t have silverware down there where we were staying, it was chopsticks. “Here you go. Welcome to Japan kid.” We didn’t learn how to do that in Alabama, so it was a wide awakening for me.
Yumi:
I’ve heard of many Japanese Major Leaguers, when they go on the Japanese TV off season, they said that during the years, a lot of American Major Leaguers [are] asking how [are the] Japanese Leagues, how NPB is, and some of the players are more interested in playing in Japan. That’s what I heard from the Japanese Major Leaguers. So both of you. before you went to Japan, did you speak with any Japanese Major Leaguers? Or the players how [the] Japanese League was? And then consider their advice? I’m very curious.
Scott:
Yeah. For me, I had a pitching coach, Rod Nichols, who played over there. And he only played one season, but he loved it. He said he didn’t love it while he was there, but looking back, he did. And he told me a lot about it. Plus, I played for Charlie Manuel, who would always talk about Japan. He had quite a career over there, and so I heard a lot of stories from him. And also Ryan Vogelsong, I was with him for a year in AAA, and he talked a lot about Japan, you know, the do’s and don’ts. And so, I had a little bit of knowledge going into it. For me, I was just excited to see a new culture, to be able to travel the world. I mean, shoot, I get paid to play baseball, like I can’t complain. I get to go and live in one of the largest cities in the world and experience Japan, like who gets to do that? Just to travel there is hard, it’s expensive, it’s not an easy place to go. So I was very excited.
Craig:
I was fortunate enough, I had a hitting coach one year, Mike Easler, who talked to me a lot about Japan. But then also, when I was 23, 24 years old, [Tsuyoshi] Shinjo was with the Mets. Shinjo was telling me at that time, “Oh, you gotta go. You gotta go. You gotta go.” And then I got to play with Kaz Matsui. But yeah, so I had a lot of people talk to me about it. But I mean, and again, it goes back to what you can be told about one thing, but you don’t really know it until you get there.
Yumi:
It’s a shame because I heard that the Japanese’s payroll system is totally different than the American system. For the Japanese, the team can provide housing and benefits, so pretty much you don’t really have to use your own money I heard. Is that true?
Scott:
That was a big thing for me, to be honest. I really didn’t spend much of my money over there. As much as you hate talking about money, and playing for financial reasons, you get to a point where you have a family, and you got to make money. And you know, if I could go live there and live a great life and be put up in this beautiful apartment, and I had my last four years there, I had a car contract over there, so I had a free car. It was one of those things where I didn’t have to spend any money, and I would live for 9, 10 months a year, and it was awesome. Definitely the best time of my life, so far.
Craig:
Yeah, it was like that with a lot of teams. They pay for your living, you can eat at the clubhouse, I mean, you’re taken care of very well over there.
Yumi:
So the rumors are true!
Craig:
I will say if you’re productive, respectful and do what they say, you’ll be taken care of very well over there.
Gabe:
My question is around memorable fan interactions, and any that spring to mind, the most prominent or the most important that you’ve had. Because Scott, you played for the most popular team in Japan, and Craig, you played in front of two of the loudest and most dedicated oendan in the league in Hanshin and Lotte. So I’m curious, what stands out in your mind when I mentioned fan interaction, and that kind of crazy atmosphere?
Scott:
It is crazy. It’s like Justin Bieber, one of those guys walking around the streets, it’s like a rock star. It’s crazy to see that. Not so much in the case for me, but there was definitely a select group of fans that would really follow the foreigners. Still to this day, like I get messages on social media from these guys every other day, it’s crazy, it’s pictures and stuff like that. But one of the things that sticks out the most to me is I always tried to put on a smile whenever I was out there; I figured I’m playing baseball, if anybody’s watching me, I’m playing a game, I’m getting paid for it. I can’t look like I’m not having fun, I’m not gonna be upset. So I always tried to be polite and interact with people, but something, I don’t remember the actual interaction, but I guess I ended up telling some girl, a 15 year old girl or something, that she had pretty hair, nice dress or something like that, at some point when I was with my kids, and a few years, actually my last year over there, her dad came up and gave me a hug. I had no idea who this guy was, but I guess she had a lot of depression and a lot of issues like that, and by me doing that and introducing her to [Hayato] Sakamoto who was with me at the same time, he said [it] changed her life around. She had some issues where she was cutting herself. She ended up going to therapy afterwards, which in Japan, nobody goes to therapy, nobody speaks of depression and all that so that really stood out where wow, it’s something that I don’t even remember, just smiling and saying hi to someone was able to change their day and change their life, and making the superstar like Sakamoto say hi to them. So that meant a lot and that really stood out.
Craig:
Yeah, definitely. The fans in Japan are awesome. There’s certain fans I can remember when I was with Seibu that just went out of their way to kind of take care of me and always say hello to me, brought me gifts all the time. And then you throw Hanshin and Chiba in there. I remember playing for Hanshin, and the game stopping when we were playing in Chiba because a fight broke out in the stands between the Hanshin and the Chiba fans.
Scott:
That was daily when we played Hanshin.
Craig:
I mean, am I at a Georgia-Auburn football game? That’s nothing new to me, but the fans are just passionate. And I can say the Hanshin fans are awesome. The Chiba fans, even Seibu fans are great. But as a total, the fans in Japan, they know the foreigners. They know all of us. I’ve seen some good fights between Tigers and Giants there. And I mean, it was unbelievable. I know in 2010, when we were playing the Giants in the playoffs at Koshien, that place was unbelievable to play in that atmosphere. And even today, I still get messages from people on social media talking about that series, or a home run at Chiba. One of the cool ones, I get a lot of people on my oldest son’s birthday send[ing] me messages because I was actually playing in Yokohama when he was born and hit two home runs in that game within like seconds of him being born, I get messages, people telling me to tell him happy birthday every year. So the fans are amazing there. There’s no ifs ands or buts about that.
Scott:
Yeah, 100% agree. Tigers fans are pretty crazy. Yeah. It’s funny to me, because everybody talks about how they’re rough and they’re crazy. We’d be taking BP and be out in the outfield, and you’d look up and somebody would yell at you or give you the finger out there, and then you just kind of give him a wave and then they get all happy and they wave back. It’s so surreal, especially coming from Philly where I became a prospect with the Phillies, and then I think I was a huge disappointment, especially after I got hurt as a young kid throwing 100 that couldn’t stay healthy. So, I definitely got a lot of hate mail and hatred in Philadelphia for a few years, but coming over in Japan, they just love baseball, and they’re so passionate about it. And you know, even like the Tigers fans that might yell at you and everything, you just give a wave and they’re just so excited for baseball. So that was pretty cool.
Craig:
Yeah, that’s definitely a big part of it. It’s hard to say which fans are crazier, Tigers or Marine fans. I think there’s more Tigers fans than there are Marines fans, to be honest with you. I’ve seen Chiba Stadium rocking, and then I’ve seen Koshien- just unbelievable. I mean, it’s hard to tell, it really is. And to be honest with you, like when we would go to Tokyo to play, I loved playing the Giants in Tokyo Dome because I mean, you could literally feel the floor shaking. It was awesome playing in there.
Shane:
You mentioned your son, Craig, is that the one whose middle name is Koshien?
Craig:
No, that is my youngest. His middle name is Koshien.
Shane:
Obviously you named him after Koshien Stadium, is that because you loved the ballpark? The team, the fans, the overall experience?
Craig:
I think it just had to do with the experience of Japan. I really do. My wife and I both, and even my oldest son because he spent his first five years over there, we fell in love with the country. And I mean, you talk about Japan and to be honest with you, people in America only know two things in Japan: the Tokyo Dome and the high school baseball tournament. So that’s Tokyo Dome and Koshien. It’s the history and everything, and I did have a lot of success in that stadium. So I mean, that’s kind of a lot behind it. It’s the love for Japan, and I always wanted to be able to remember it.
Toshiki:
Thank you Scott and Craig for being here. I’m a Giants fan, so Scott, you’re a huge part of my childhood. So thank you. You guys kind of talked about it already, but I’d love to hear more about playing against each other [with the] Tigers and the Giants. Whenever you guys play each other, like, I get pumped up just by talking about it. So if you could kind of talk about it a little bit more, that’d be great.
Craig:
You know, only to be honest with you, I think I only faced Scott one time, and that was, I think, my last year with the Tigers. And I was telling him, it was towards the end of the game, and he came in for some ungodly reason, because they were beating our brains out. And I think I was already on my way to the taxi to the hotel, and they told me to come hit. But I mean, after facing him, I knew he was gonna be a success in Japan, you could just see that. And being there as long as I was, you can kind of see what players are going to be successful there or not successful. And if you’ve seen him throw a good bit, you could always tell; I knew Scott was going to be very successful over there. But as far as the rivalry, some of my favorite players were Giants players. I mean, a guy like Abe and Ogasawara, I loved those two more than anything, because they were just the epitome of Japanese superstars. I mean, they were awesome to play against. There will be games, I can remember playing on the Tokyo Dome, where Abe would say to me, “hey, if you get on second, please don’t run me over.” But I had that respect for him, but we always wanted to win so bad against that team. And I think it was the atmosphere, and it goes back to the fans. The fans created such great atmosphere against this, and there’s so much history there. Those were the games you hear about as a foreigner coming over there that you want to play in and I mean, I loved playing in those series. Luckily, I was fortunate to get to playing for some good time.
Scott:
Yeah, I think the Giants and Tiger series are always the most fun, just because it’s always sold out, it does not matter where you’re at, it was always a big rivalry. Luckily I played on a lot of championship teams, and we had many years of just beating the Tigers pretty badly. And it was a lot of fun. It was just that I definitely wouldn’t want to be on the other end. But it’s just having that big rivalry, and on a Tuesday night, there’s 50,000 fans there. It is crazy. It’s so loud in the stadium, and for me, I was someone that when I pitched I didn’t hear anything, I didn’t know; it could be nobody there, or it could be sold out. But being in the bullpen underneath, you could hear everybody, and you had the butterflies all game. It was a lot of fun. I always loved playing against the Tigers. Luckily, I feel like I had pretty good success, especially early on against them. But I remember just battling games, and when I blew up my knee, I remember pitching through that game and getting the save but barely got out of it. Those big games against the Tigers that stand out, especially with everybody yelling at you. You come out driving the little car from the bullpen and people are throwing beer, they now have the tarps over it so they can’t throw the beer at you anymore. And it’s just cool. It’s surreal. We’re playing a game and we can experience that. It’s one of those things that you know, I’ve been out of baseball for less than a year now, and I miss it. I miss it so bad. It’s one of those feelings that just will never got easier.
Craig:
But hey, I will throw this out, just to say with [Michihiro] Ogasawara, there you go right there. (Craig holds up an Ogosowara model bat). I mean not only are we players, we’re fans too.
Scott:
I have one of those hanging up too. I grew up collecting baseball and hockey cards and memorabilia and I think my more cherished memorabilia is more stuff I brought from Japan than anything I have from the States. I call him “Guts” but Ogasawara, I have that same bat hanging up in my batting cage in my garage. I got an Abe jersey, a Sakamoto jersey, a [Hisayoshi] Chono jersey. Some cool stuff. Guys that I was just so fortunate enough to play with.
Shane:
We can confirm you guys faced each other once, and Scott struck Craig out. But to be fair, Craig was wearing his shower shoes in the batter’s box.
Scott:
I’ll be honest, I should never admit this, but I mean, there was times I’d fall behind guys, especially early on, I would rather walk them than give up a hit. I was out there for a strikeout. Like I would throw 3-1 pitches in the dirt trying to get guys to chase and I’ve always loved striking guys out, and it’s not something you should ever tell a pitcher or teach them, cause you know, contact and get out early. But, man, I was always out there for the strikeout. So I appreciate him coming up in shower shoes.
Craig:
Hey, I was the one that didn’t want to walk, I wanted to hit the ball. I mean, I came up in the time when I would rather ground out to the pitcher than strike out. And for me, I didn’t fall in the moneyball, because if I walked, it still took two hits to get me home, because it’s got to be a ball in the gap for me to go first to third. So I mean, I wanted to hit, that was just part of it. And I mean, the teams knew that if they got me on base, I mean, you get a pretty good chance to roll a double play.
Susan:
I love hearing all these stories. So my question is, Yankees great Paul O’Neill referred to NPB as being like Triple A.
Craig:
He’s a jerk.
Susan:
That’s what I was going for! So I wanted to [ask,] if Paul O’Neill were sitting right here on this call, what would you guys say to him to convince him otherwise?
Scott:
My true feelings about that is I think it’s a true 4A, it’s not Major League, but it’s not Triple A. At least the teams I played on, we’d be a .500 team in the major leagues, probably, and we’d just absolutely kill Triple A teams. I think in Japan, the starting lineups are all Major League quality players, and then the bench falls off really fast. You will have guys on the bench that wouldn’t make a Triple A team, but the guys that are starting in the field are all Major League players, or very close to it.
Craig:
Yeah, you’re gonna have a lot of that. I’ll put one out there for you – 2010. Our starting lineup, I think we had six guys with 25+ home runs. And I mean, you had a ton of All-Stars, and it’s once you get on the bench is where you fall off a lot. And the pitching is not the same as it is in the US, you’re not going to see that one-through-three, one-through-four are going to be frontline starters. I mean, so that’s the big part. But I mean, for me, everybody’s automatically thinking, “Oh, it’s just going over there, you’ll make a ton of money. It’s real easy.” No, that’s why a lot of guys come over here, spend one year and they’re gone. And because it’s not as easy as you think it is.
Susan:
This is for both of you: name one teammate you think would have thrived in major leagues?
Scott:
I personally have many. I’m gonna have to name two. But I would love to see Sakamoto, if he went over as a second baseman, he would be an All-Star. And then Abe in his prime. I remember my first year over there, I mean, Abe in his prime is I mean a major league All-Star hands down. There’s nobody that touches him. Those two both were.
Craig:
For me, one that’s kind of sticking out my mind is [Takashi] Toritani. Toritani could have played second base, I believe in the Major Leagues; not shortstop. But I mean, Tori could hit, there’s no doubt about it. But yeah, I definitely agree with Abe, 100%.
Susan:
Okay, but what about one from your other teams that you were on too?
Craig:
Chiba I can’t really say that anybody would be a frontline guy or a good player in the Major Leagues. Seibu, I mean, obviously, [Hiroyuki] Nakajima went over. Earlier in his career, I think [Hideaki] Wakui the pitcher, when he was younger, I think he might have been all right over there.
Scott:
I’ll say, there’s two guys I’m really looking forward to coming over to the States. And that’d be [Seiya] Suzuki with the Carp. I think hands down, he’s going to be the next big position player from Japan to come to the US. Obviously I’m excited to see [Tomoyuki] Sugano come over, I wish he could have come over a few years ago. It’s great seeing guys stay with the Giants and win over there, but, selfishly I want to see guys come over to the US and succeed and show how good the league is over there. But I do hope Sugano gets his chance and gets to come over here and play. But if Suzuki ever comes over, he’s gonna be special.
Shane:
Yeah, that’d be fun. Thanks, Susan, for that. On that related question, Craig, you mentioned that when you saw Scott, you knew he was gonna succeed, and you said that you feel like you could kind of tell when guys are going to succeed in Japan? What indicates that to you? Are we talking about just the way he’s throwing or more than that?
Craig:
It goes down to more than that. It goes down to a mindset. You can look at a guy that’s been over there, and realize that he’s accepted the culture. He wants to learn the game. And then obviously, as far as pitchers, every Japanese seems to want that guy that throws 100. But, and I’ve seen it a bunch of times, we’d have a guy come in and throw 100, first thing they’re going to do is teach them a splitter and good slider, something that goes into the dirt. I saw a lot of those guys that said, “No, I’m not doing that. I’m just going to try to blow it by these guys.” And there was a couple of them that I took these little guys to hit, or they’re gonna make you throw 35 pitches in one at bat, and foul off every single one of them, until you go “Good god, I’m just gonna throw one over the plate,” then “whack.” Double in the gap. I can even say, I saw guys work on hitting foul balls, and they were barreling balls up. So I mean, it’s things like that, that you got to learn. I can remember going in, like my first spring training, even with a Tigers, I had foul ball practice. And I’m going “What in the hell am I doing?” But it made me a better hitter. And there was a couple other foreign players that went over there and said, “I’m not doing this stupid stuff.” They were gone by halfway through the year. It’s the openness, the willingness and openness to accept the culture, and really learn the game. As soon as you think you’re better than Japanese game, these guys will kick your butt quick, because it is good.
Scott:
I was gonna say if you watch batting practice and like guys in the outfield, it’s pretty easy to see the foreigners, because the foreigners that aren’t happy, they’re usually by themselves or they’re with another foreigner in a corner somewhere. And then the guys that have been there for a while are fitting in, they’re joking around with different players, they’re running, they’re still doing the drills. And you see hitter wise, they’ll come out and take their BP and go in. And you’ll see other guys out there, they’ll take their BP and then sit around and talk to people, or they’ll come out and help shag. It’s night and day difference to see the guys that sit with that, they’re going to succeed over there or give themselves the opportunity to succeed.
Craig:
Yeah, it is definitely, because I know, even towards the end of my career, I hit in the last group. So I went out, and I mean, when I was in Chiba I was DH’ing. So I didn’t really have to worry about fielding, but I went out and fielded ground balls just because I loved doing it, and it was fun to get out there with those guys, and see how good they are with their hands. And hey, it might benefit me down the road, being able to teach somebody what these guys have taught me. Even with the Tigers, my manager told me to stop coming out so much, because I would be out there from the beginning all the way to the end. And just because I enjoyed it, embraced it. And I mean, and your batting practices, I mean, as a hitter, you got 10 minutes yourself just to hit. So you took advantage of it.
Jim:
Scott, I want to ask about Tatsunori Hara and what it was like to play for him. What makes him special? I have my opinion, but I’m really curious to hear your, you know, what has made him a success for so many years.
Scott:
I mean, he just has that aura with him. You can see, my first three years, we won everything; the fourth year I was over there, we came second. And that’s when he stepped down, and they bring him back, and we win again. And then look at them this year, it’s truly amazing. We’d always call it Hara magic, anything he did was magic. It works, even if it didn’t make sense, it worked. I think that people trust him, has that presence. He’s intimidating. At least on the field, nobody’s ever gonna cross him, and what he says goes, and the experience that goes with it, he tells you something with confidence. I feel like when someone portrays something to you, and they’re very confident with it, you have confidence in that as well. And it doesn’t matter who was on the mound, you’d believe in them, and he wouldn’t throw someone out, or he’d would pull someone out real quick if he didn’t believe in him. He was out there to win, which I loved about Japan when I first got over there; we’re there to win, we’re there for nothing else, we’re at the highest level of baseball besides the major leagues, and we’re there to win. And that’s what I was excited about and what I wanted to do, so I really enjoyed playing for him and I was fortunate enough to get to have a lot of private dinners with him and a really good relationship with him over the years. He’s someone that I look up to, and I always will.
Jim:
And Craig, Scott has talked a lot about his relationship with Shinnosuke Abe, and Craig, I want to ask, are there any Japanese players that you looked up to, and maybe who taught you things? Not just about baseball, but you learned things from?
Craig:
You know, I was fortunate to get to play against the Giants a lot. Abe obviously taught me a lot just by watching, watching from afar, the way he played the game, because I knew him and I were similar hitters. [We] hit the ball out of the ballpark, it didn’t matter where in the ballpark. But then I also got to play with Kanemoto. So I mean, that’s one of your great Japanese baseball players, just his presence in a clubhouse was amazing, watching him, and a lot of times he was one of the guys saying, “hey, try this. Think about hitting this way, or going up the middle more, go the other way.” And then I’ll give praise to probably the biggest person who helped the most in Japan, Alex Ramirez. I really will say that. Ramy and I talked a lot. From the day I got there, Ramy was the first one to come and talk to me to say “Here, here’s my number, give me a call if you ever need me.” And he was amazing, the things he taught me playing over there, it truly changed my career when I went to the Tigers to play against him that much, about, “Hey, all they want you to do is just roll over the ball and try to hit homeruns. Start hitting that inside pitch the other way, you start hitting it the other way more, they’re gonna make mistakes out over the plate a lot more.” And I saw that in ‘09, ‘10, a little bit in ‘11, not so much in 12. There’s a lot of guys in Japan that really helped me out a lot, but I will have to say Ramy was one of the biggest influences of my career in Japan.
Scott:
You know what, I will agree with you; when I first got to Japan, he reached out to me and gave me his number and said, “If there’s anything I can do to help you…” we were playing against each other at the time. And then he had a restaurant over there at the time that we’d go [to] and eat at this restaurant a lot after the games. Even though he was on a different team, he was always willing to help, and he’s definitely someone who’s done a lot for Japanese baseball and a lot for foreigners in Japanese baseball.
Eric:
For Scott, was there any particular hitter that you had a lot of success against? And then maybe one that was tough? And then I guess for Craig, any pitcher that you enjoyed hitting against or had a lot of success against, and anyone that stood out as being exceptionally tough?
Scott:
Success against, early on, all the Tigers; I love pitching to the Tigers, I loved pitching against them. I felt like I racked up a lot of strikeouts early on, but someone that I really struggled against was [Kazuhiro] Wada with the Dragons; man, for years I couldn’t get him out. He was probably hitting .700 off me. And it wasn’t until his last season that- it wasn’t on purpose, it was actually a pitch slipped on me- but I threw it up and in on him. And I’ve never seen him get so mad in the box. And so I repeated it, I went up and in on him again and knocked him down, and he couldn’t hit me after that. But I mean, there was a good four years that man, I couldn’t get them out.
Craig:
I mean, for me, obviously as a hitter, everybody’s gonna always say [Yu] Darvish, [Masahiro] Tanaka. I had a couple good at bats against Tanaka and Darvish. But the pitcher that gave me the most trouble was, he was with the Tigers in 2010, I actually think he was the MVP that year… I cannot remember his name. But this guy was all of five-foot-five 125 pounds, and was throwing 98 to 100, and throwing splits that were ungodly. His name will pop in my head. But there was a kid with the Carp that I think I was nine for nine against, and we actually cleared the benches, because my 10th at bat against him, he threw at me three times and missed me. And I was just like, “If you’re gonna hit me, hit me. Come on, let’s go.”
Ian:
Craig, I was just wondering if you could talk about the ball change from 2010 to 2011, because everybody’s offense decreased, including yours. Can you just talk about the difference in the ball?
Craig:
I can honestly tell you, the ball changed so much that pitchers that had 4.00 ERAs went down to 1.00 ERAs, and this is nothing against the pitchers, hey, more power to you, make that money. But I will say I can remember times where I would get a ball thrown to me at first base, and it would be lopsided like an egg. I’ve never seen balls so soft. I think Ramirez only hit 20 home runs that year, and he had 49 the year before. It was ungodly, that made pitchers- I mean, obviously Darvish was unhittable, Tanaka was even more unhittable. It was like throwing a mush-ball, but with the most raised seams you’d ever seen in your life. And when you hit it, you could crush it, and it went nowhere; it was sickening to play. That ‘11 season for me, I think if you look, I think I had more hits to left field because I had to forget about the home run, because it was not going to happen. It was “Alright, I’m just going to shoot the ball up the middle of the way and see what I can do,” because that ball was just mush. There’s nothing we could do about it. And every hitter hated it.
Scott:
I felt like 2012 and 13, the ball is pretty dead too. I mean, I had a low 1.00 ERA both those years, and going up to 2014, we showed up and it felt like spring training. Every ball was flying out of the park.
Craig:
For me, I noticed that at the end of ‘13, I started seeing the balls get a little bit harder, because I remember playing at Chiba and hit one off the lights, and went “Wait a minute, what’s going on?” And then the next year, the balls were just flying out the ballpark because you started seeing the little guys hitting them again.
Scott
Yeah, I think I only gave up one home run that year, it was to Wily Mo Pena, and it probably was first row or something. I got in trouble, just left a ball up over the middle of the plate, and tried to hit it.
Craig:
Yeah, there’s a lot of guys that you would see in ‘11 that even playing in the Tokyo Dome didn’t matter. It would not travel there, and in Yokohama, it didn’t travel. I mean, Koshien you could forget about it, that was just a graveyard. And then you get down to Hiroshima, with that hot, muggy air. A lot of times I saw more fastballs out over the plate, and they’d just say “Here, see how far you hit it.” Nothing.
Scott:
Yeah. I agree with you, man. You definitely saw ‘13 was a huge pickup over 12, but I felt like even in 2014, the balls were ridiculous at the beginning of the year.
Craig:
Yeah, it was a big change. Because I remember taking batting practice in Chiba, and literally hitting them out of the stadium going “What in the- I’m getting old! I know I don’t have that anymore.”
Scott:
I remember them coming in and telling us like the balls were stored in a facility in China somewhere or something. There’s some use for that.
Shane:
That’s fascinating stuff. Yumi is asking in the chat, she’s curious if either of you are interested in coaching in Japan if the opportunity came up?
Craig:
If the opportunity was right, yeah, I probably would jump on it. I know I can’t coach over here, I can’t just deal with the players these days. But Japanese, I would love doing something over in Japan.
Scott:
Me personally, right now I have two young kids and I feel like it’s quite a commitment. I want to see my kids grow up, and in the future, when they’re older, I would love to go over and do something like that. At some point, maybe the scouting department or keep ties with the team somehow, but we’ll see what plays out you know, I definitely still follow the Giants, and it would have to be with the Giants. I don’t think I’d go to any other team over in Japan.
James:
Craig, you gave me some baseballs before a Tigers-As’ game in 2012, the opening series, there were like 500 people there. You were nice, thanks Craig. And Scott, even though I’m a Tigers fan you were always nice to me, you gave me a ball, so I appreciate that. You guys were always nice to us, I don’t know why.
Scott:
For me, when you’re on the field and off the field, it’s a completely night-and-day difference. Definitely off the field, I’ll go with anybody, and I’ll talk to anybody. On the field, I’m out for blood.
Craig:
I’d say that’s the same way here. For me it was when that umpire said “Play Ball.” They’ve talked about athletes having that switch. It went on, and I didn’t care who was out there. I wanted to hurt you. And I’m not meaning, hurt you physically, but I wanted to hurt. But when I was out there, that’s what I mean, I had just the tunnel vision. Like Scott said, when he was on the mound, he didn’t hear anything. I didn’t hear anything, it was me and that pitcher.
Scott:
That’s the best part about baseball, right? It’s a one-on-one aspect within a team game. It’s just pitcher and hitter. And that’s all that’s all you see, that’s all you hear, regardless how many people are there?
James:
Yeah, it’s like a love hate relationship. I in fact, I even wrote a book called Yellow and Black Fever about my experiences as a Tigers fan. But you guys aren’t in there yet, it’s before you guys got there.
Craig:
The Tigers, I would think more of as the yellow fever there. You don’t get to win very often.
James:
I just had a quick question for you. Did you guys speak English with them? Japanese? Or a little mix of both there. I was curious
Scott:
I mean, definitely a good mix of towards the end. It’s amazing how many guys can speak English over there. One of my favorite memorabilia I have right now is a jersey that Abe signed for me. And I mean, for most people it wouldn’t make sense at all what he wrote on there, but there’s a nice English message on there. And it’s just to me that he went out of his way in a language that he doesn’t even know to write it. It meant a lot to me.
Craig:
That was really what it was, at the beginning of my career it was English, and “yeah I understand you.” But towards the end of my career, it was a lot of English-Japanese mixed together, because I knew I understood a lot more than I could speak, and like you said, a lot of the players can speak English, and you’ll find that if they’ve accepted you, they’ll start speaking a lot more English to you, and want to know about you.
Gabe:
I have one more question for Scott. I have to ask, because I visited there back in 2018 or 2019, the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame in St. Mary’s, I bet you they’re going to be calling you in a couple years. Do you have any merchandise there? Or if they ring you up, what would you send?
Scott:
They have a glove of mine, they have a few things, a hat, a glove. And then actually, I talked to them a fair bit, and I was supposed to go up to see [Justin] Mourneau get in this year, but obviously COVID has put a big damper on that. But no, I talked to Scott Crawford a little bit with the Canadian Hall of Fame, and I have never been there. So I’d like to get up and check it out.
Gabe:
When I went it was still just the original building, they’ve expanded it since and I’d love to get the chance to go back.
Scott:
That’s what I’m hoping for, and my wife and I, one of our plans is to do a big cross continent trip and drive all the way up the East Coast and straight across Canada, then down the West Coast and back. So there’ll be a stop on the way.
Jim:
Now, I know both of you talked extensively about embracing the opportunities that Japan gave to you, and having a new start. But you know, we’ve all been through this point where there comes a day, or comes a moment, maybe it’s a very brief moment, where you have to ask yourself a question: “Is this really what I want to do?” What was the incident, or maybe the most challenging thing, that happened to you early on, where you may be questioned why you were there?
Craig:
Well, I can only say; I came over with Seibu and got injured. I think this was the second round of the playoffs or something like that, I didn’t get to play in the Japan Series. Go back next year, go to spring training in Baltimore, and I’m just tearing it up. Released on the first day of the season. I’m sitting there going “What in the world is going on?” So I go to St. Paul, for literally two weeks, played in four games and it was, I think, five or six home runs. Yeah, I mean, just craziness. And the Tigers came calling. And it literally took my wife convincing me to say, “Hey, this is a move for us to come back.” Because I wasn’t 100% sure I wanted to come back to Japan, and really go back to that atmosphere, because I was having a lot of calls from major league teams saying, “hey, you want to come right across to Minnesota and start playing?” And that was the turning point, because I remember because my wife was probably four months pregnant then. And dealing with a hormonal pregnant wife, that was one of the turning points of my life right there. She pretty much cracked that whip and said, “Get your butt on that plane and go play baseball in Japan.”
Scott:
For me while I was in Japan, I can honestly say I don’t think I had that moment. As crazy as the Giants [are,] I think I was expecting a lot worse, because you hear about so many foreigners talk about the Giants and mostly guys that never made it and never made a career over there. But I loved every minute playing in Japan. In baseball, I’ve had those moments before. You know, in 2010, I was minor league Pitcher of the Year for the Phillies. I threw one inning in the big leagues that year, and in 2011 I was the last cut of spring training. I don’t think I gave up a run in spring training, and I ended up pitching in like four innings. And those were tough times. Going through my third elbow surgery, there were many times where I was every day on the internet or while reading the paper at the time, looking at jobs, looking at schools and thinking I’m gonna cash in, the Phillies have to pay for my education. Maybe it’s a better choice for me to go and get a degree and start trying to figure out being an adult. But once I got to Japan, it was cruise control. I loved it, I had a blast. Every year the season would finish, I’d want to come back to the Giants. There was one or two years where I had some very enticing offers to come back to the States, but the Giants came, and just they made a better offer, and I was always happy to go back. So, Japan, I can honestly say that I had a lot of fun there. And I was very happy. I mean, I was very fortunate to play on very good teams over there. We had two rough years, but other than that, I won four championships out of eight years being there, that’s pretty unreal. I was in a good situation, and I think I got in at the right time, and I wish I was still playing and I wish I was still there.
Shane:
Thank you guys, we’re at the hour and a half mark here – that flew by – so I’ll wrap it up here. But thank you both for joining us and for your candid answers, and your insights; really interesting stuff. And I particularly think everyone else on the call, I think all of us are have been to Japan, if not lived in Japan, to watch baseball and we can appreciate a lot what you’re saying, about how great of a country it is and the difference between going in and really trying to embrace the differences, or just trying to create your own kind of bubble in another country. And you’re preaching to the choir here, and it’s cool to hear ballplayers who really have that approach. Thanks again for joining us!
Craig and Scott:
Thank you!
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Coop Daley